(Neuro)Diverse Dialogues
Ever wondered what your colleagues or students who describe as neurodivergent really experience or how they feel about life in academia - but have been a bit fearful of asking?
These chats are an opportunity for people who describe themselves as neurodivergent to talk about their life experiences and how they navigate the neurotypical waters of academia - and for me to ask questions I have always wanted to ask.
I aim to load new chats fortnightly and if you would like to take part, or to suggest someone who might, then please let me know.
The more we talk the more we learn.
NeuroDiverseDialogues@gmail.com
(Neuro)Diverse Dialogues
Kat - From Graduate To Dietitian With A Dual Diagnosis
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Warning: On this episode Kat and I are joined but a Jack Russell contributing vocally at time (not for long). This Causes a little disruption but in maintaining Kats stoic resiliance I have not edited. Thanks Kat!
People love tidy labels for autism and ADHD, but real neurodiversity refuses to stay in a single box. We sit down with Kat, a newly qualified dietitian who has a dual diagnosis of autism and ADHD, and we follow her path through higher education, diagnosis, and into clinical practice. Along the way she shares what it feels like when your traits do not match the stereotypes, and why that mismatch can leave you doubting yourself even when you are clearly capable.
Kat talks candidly about her diagnosis journey, including an earlier OCD label that, in hindsight, may have been a misread of autistic traits. She explains the relief of finally having a framework that makes childhood memories, social misunderstandings, and sensory overload add up. We dig into the details people often miss: being highly sensitive rather than emotionally detached, taking language literally, and the exhausting work of dealing with “hidden meanings” in everyday conversations.
We also get practical about neurodiversity at work. Kat describes how openness can unlock reasonable adjustments, reduce burnout, and help you perform better as a clinician. She highlights strengths her team values, like attention to detail and clinical curiosity, plus the courage to question processes that do not make sense. We talk hyperfixations, comfort foods, safe clothing, and the less-discussed impact of moral justice sensitivity when something feels unfair and you cannot let it go.
If you have ever been told you are “not really” autistic or ADHD because you do not fit someone else’s template, this conversation will land. Subscribe for more honest stories, share the episode with someone who needs it, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.
Welcome And Why These Stories
SPEAKER_01Hello and welcome to another one of our fireside chats or podcasts I'm having with people in academia who identify as being new diverse in some way. My aim is to hear their personal experiences and to hear what their journey's been. And it's a chance to for them to tell their own story without being told what they should be like and what they should feel due to the labels being applied. So we've got the opportunity to hear and see you the diversity of neurodiversity. Since we're hearing personal journeys, the terminology or the wording will be theirs and based on their experiences. And they'll be describing their own journey. So let's not get lost in the impact, lose their impact of their generosity in sharing this by semantics and thinking about words we do or don't like. They may use terminology or expressions used by those of us listening that we don't normally use, but that's not important. I want to learn from their own life experiences in their own voices. So we've got Kat here today. Hello.
SPEAKER_00Hi.
SPEAKER_01How are you doing? It's Jack for joining us. Um so start off, and if you could tell us a little bit about yourself, that'd
Meet Kat And Her Career Path
SPEAKER_01be great.
SPEAKER_00Of course. Um, so yeah, my name's Kat. I recently um graduated. Sorry, excuse the dogs. I recently I knew it would start at some point, started early. Um so yes, my name's Kat. I'm a recent graduate. I graduated last summer from um same university, Newcastle University, um, with an integrated master's degree in dietetics. Um I'm now working as a dietitian, um, and this is actually my second degree. So I like to call myself a bit of an expert in education. I've done GCSEs, I've done A-levels, I've done two degrees, and um I've done uh higher education courses as well. So yeah, that's a bit about me.
SPEAKER_01You got a full full full schmorgis board of qualifications. So, what was your other degree in?
SPEAKER_00Um it was in human resource management, so a little bit different, but similar, yeah, similar vibe.
SPEAKER_01Gosh, that's interesting. So now, yeah, so that's why it's really interesting to talk to you because you kind of did the a degree in a clinical director's subject, and now you're you're practicing that, and it'll be good to kind of hear the difference between those experiences in terms of diversity. That would be really cool. So, how would you describe yourself in terms of in your diversity?
Autism And ADHD Diagnosis Journey
SPEAKER_00So I am an autistic person who also has um ADHD, um, which is how I would describe myself.
SPEAKER_01So it's kind of a due diagnosis, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, one more was formally autistic, and then um the ADHD diagnosis has come a little bit later, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so so we you are diagnosed with the autism a lot younger?
SPEAKER_00Um, not much younger, just a few years. Um yeah, I don't know if you want me to talk about my diagnosis story or if that's boring. Um no, no, that's we we all yeah, that's that's great to hear.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Go for it. So um, I mean, I've always uh considered myself there was always something just not I don't want to use the word normal, but something that I always felt was very words, that's what you think.
SPEAKER_01Say it.
SPEAKER_00It's the only word I could think of, but yes, I don't like to think of it as normal versus normal, but yeah, I always there was always something um that I just maybe couldn't put my finger on. Um my I have an older sister and a younger sister. My older sister is a secondary school maths teacher, and and I believe the story is that she was um undergoing some further training um to take on a class of individuals um who may need a little bit of extra support, and most of those were neurodiverse individuals. Um and from that point she said to me, you know, this really resonates with me. Like I really think you might be autistic.
SPEAKER_01Um and I'd actually How did you feel about that?
SPEAKER_00Um initially I was a little bit sort of just like, oh, like I wouldn't say there was a negative um impression, but it there wasn't a positive one either. Um, it was to be honest with you, it was quite nice um hearing that from my sister that she was kind of looking out for me and thinking about me.
SPEAKER_01Excellent. Yeah, that's really nice. It's good to hear because I think there's a lot of kind of discussion about whether people should be saying this to each other. And um, I think when you're in that relationship you've got your sister, then it's it's a safe place, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00Whereas from somebody else it might have been intrusive. Not taken so so well, yeah. I degree. Um, there's definitely that fine line, isn't there? But no, for my sister it came out quite well. Um I'd actually been diagnosed prime prior to that just by my GP, not formally with OCD. Um and um, but in hindsight, I now suspect that that was the OD the OCD was actually a wrong diagnosis. I feel like it was more my autism that was um coming out very similar to how an OCD presentation might in some ways.
SPEAKER_01That makes sense.
SPEAKER_00Um so yeah, I went through the diagnosis process through the NHS. Um, it was actually just before there was a massive boom in um diagnoses. So I know the waiting list at the minute is years and years long. I waited six months, um so I got in just in the nick of time. Um sorry about my dog.
SPEAKER_01Right, right.
SPEAKER_00Um so yeah, so then um within that autism diagnosis, um, the report had identified um a very high scoring on the I can't remember what the words used, the DS index, um whatever it's called, um suggesting that I might also have ADHD. And he strongly recommended that I go for that diagnosis as well. Um my younger sister um has was diagnosed with ADHD around the same time I was diagnosed with autism. Um yeah, and it's she's very stereotypically presenting as an ADHD person. Um so with myself, it was always so when I'd kind of spoken about that with my family. Um so sorry, it was very much does it mean something, or are we okay carrying on? Yeah, she just wants attention. I'll be one second, I'm just gonna show up. I knew she do this. I'm really hoping you can cut that. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_01No ways, no ways. It's apartheid authenticity.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. It's um it's not stopped. Uh yeah, so she's very stereotypically presenting with ADHD, and myself maybe not so much. So my family were quite um disbelieving at first, but um again, I've gone for the diagnosis, and that is something that they kind of identified. Um so yeah, and here I am today.
SPEAKER_01Okay, we're just taking a minute uh to make sure the dog the dog's happy. What's the dog called? Minnie. Minnie's happy, and we're good to carry on now. Excellent. So where were we?
SPEAKER_00So we just talked about my diagnosis journey, um, and I think yeah, that's all we're doing.
SPEAKER_01And you your sister got diagnosed at the same time, so yeah.
SPEAKER_00So she was diagnosed with ADHD whilst I was diagnosed with autism around the same time. Um yeah, so that's all that going on.
SPEAKER_01So you you your other sister kind of um pointed out that maybe maybe you might consider getting uh an autism diagnosis. And so how was that presenting itself? What was what led to that?
Traits Beyond The Stereotypes
SPEAKER_00So I guess typically with um there's this stereotype, isn't there, with autism that people are very um quite cold and unemotional and quite detached, whereas um I've always been very much the opposite. So um everyone always jokes in my family that I'm the most sensitive person in the world, both emotionally, um, anything I eat seems to disagree with me, anything touches my skin, it disagrees with me. Um, so that's basically summarizes um my experience as an autism, an autistic person. Um, I would also say there were elements of my social um skills that she found were quite sort of um um similar to what I was experiencing myself. So um, for one, I tend to take things very literally. Um very much like a black and white thinking. Um, and when someone will say something, I I find it quite difficult to understand the hidden meanings behind that.
SPEAKER_01You kind of miss the nuances of miss the nuance, that's it exactly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Excellent.
SPEAKER_00So I would say they were predominantly the things that she noticed.
SPEAKER_01That's great. Because I I think um that's something that we're trying to get across in this podcast is diversity. That everyone kind of thinks ADHD is sort of one thing and autism is something different, but yeah, there's kind of I don't know, a mosaic, isn't there, really?
SPEAKER_00I think which that's it, and I think almost the very idea of um autistic person being struggling with social skills versus an ADHD person who is very stereotypically, very um extroverted and sort of out there, um, it contradicts itself so much, and it does as a person diagnosed with both, it is very contradictory, but also you're right, it there's so much more nuance to it, um, and every autistic person is slightly different, and it's it's hard because it's everybody in society likes to categorize people, don't they? They like to like we like boxes, we like boxes, we like labels, and um, and I I've seen autism described more like sort of an um I'm using the word the wrong diagram here, but like a web diagram where some people are more extreme in some areas and some in others, and it can be so varied, so um, one person's experience compared to another can completely contradict themselves, and yet they are both given this singular diagnosis.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh, yeah, as therefore you're expected to behave in a certain way, and when you don't, the assumption that's not the case, and that's um you know that that totally makes sense. So, um you got your your audience. How did you feel after getting that? Did it have a big impact on you having that kind of document?
SPEAKER_00It did. Yeah, it was, I would say initially it was a sense of relief um to kind of understand why I was the way I was. Looking back historically throughout my childhood, things just made a lot more sense. Um, and that again was quite enlightening being able to understand myself a little bit better, understand what causes the negative reactions, um, and sort of finding ways to minimize those and and control them a little bit better. So it's it's really having that diagnosis has really um improved my quality of life, I would say.
SPEAKER_01Good. That's really that's really that's really good to hear and kind of giving you a few answers.
Relief And Self Understanding After Diagnosis
SPEAKER_01Okay, so um okay, thinking about kind of the move from um being a student to being a clinician.
Being Open At University And Work
SPEAKER_01How have you found that move? Have you kind of have you been open about the diagnosis?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I've been very open throughout university and um throughout uh my career as well. Um I'm very aware of the the areas that I excel because of my neurodiversity, but also the ways that I struggle.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um definitely because there's definitely things that I'm good at because of my neurodiversity. Um, one of the things um uh being and my managers will kind of uh back me up that they say you're very good at like um attention to detail and sort of that clinical curiosity. So I'm not afraid in the clinical setting to question things that maybe other people might not, um, and to notice the finer details of a patient care that that maybe don't agree with or don't understand, and by questioning that, it might kind of open the door a little bit to question what we're actually doing. Um, but yes, to answer your original question, I've always been very open. Um, I think it's really important to um make people aware so that you can manage yourself properly. So um I know you've talked with other people that have come on the uh on your podcast about like opening doors to um reasonable adjustments, and I do think um that's really important because with those reasonable adjust adjustments, you can live your life much happier in the workplace and you can perform much better as well. So I just think it's really everyone wins. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01And it sounds like your managers have been great.
SPEAKER_00They've been amazing. Do you know? I love I love my team and my management are amazing, so shout out to them. I won't name names, but yeah, they're fantastic.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think it's I think it's a good valuable time to be able to give people credit for what they've done, and people have kind of helped me on my journey, and uh I try to shout out as much as possible because it validates their efforts, I think. Yeah, it's so important. Yeah, okay, cheers. So um, okay, so this the next next question is to ask you to to share a story or anecdote whether positive or negative.
Hyperfixations With Clothes And Food
SPEAKER_01And I know you kind of thought it had to be something immensely witty or something.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, I have I have so been overthinking this one, and then um I just decided to scrap that and I'll just cover with the the first one I thought about. Um, so I mean there's a couple of things. Um, one, the fact as a child, I would totally hyperfixate on one item of clothing, and that would be all I would wear for weeks, months on end. So I had this um my dad got a bike stolen, and we went to this bike shop. Um, and whilst he was there, he saw this little hat and bought me this hat. Um, so this really special bike hat, and I didn't take this hat off for months and months and months. And there's pictures of my childhood where you know, you can see me every picture, no matter the weather, I am wearing this hat. Um, so yeah, that's kind of been a story throughout my life of those kind of hyperfixations. Similarly, with food, you know, I'll hyperfixate on one food and that will be all I will eat for weeks, months on end, and then all of a sudden it just switches and I can't even go near that food anymore. Um, I'm sure a lot of neurodiverse people can resonate with that.
SPEAKER_01Sure, yeah. So what was what's what's your latest food fixation?
SPEAKER_00I'm sort of in the middle of food fixations at the moment. For a while it was um it was dates, so we're really into dates. Um I've had no this is the thing, everyone's really funny about them. But um, when I was uh university in my first year, sort of fresh as everyone goes on about you know, you've got no money. Um, and my sole meal every day was parma ham, scrambled egg, and spinach. So I was living like the bougie lifestyle. Um that's again ham. Parma ham, scrambled eggs, and spinach. All right, interesting. It's a good, it's a good one. But I would go through like packets and packets of parma ham.
SPEAKER_01I do like parma ham. I could eat a whole pack of parma ham as well.
SPEAKER_00I know, but a bit expensive.
SPEAKER_01Yes, especially for sure lifestyle.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Excellent. Um, so um, can you describe how it affects your day-to-day life in a way that people might not expect it to? So something a bit outside those stereotypes we mentioned.
Moral Justice And The Cost Of Burnout
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and this is a difficult one because, like you said, knowing yourself so well and being surrounded by neurodiverse people, you kind of yeah, but one that came out and I would say that really affects me is my kind of um moral justice, I think they call it. Um so if I feel that something is particularly um immoral or not fair in voted commas, and that's something I really struggle with. I fixate on that and I have a real hard time letting that go. And I mean that has its good and its positives. So as a social justice warrior, um you definitely want me on your team. Um, however, it's also got me in trouble a fair few times. I know throughout university, a lot of my peers would say to me, like, Oh, we're so glad you you're on our course, because if we never understand anything or we don't like understand why we've got to do something a certain way, we know you'll ask, and you know, you know, we'll find out, and um, which is lovely, but there's also the aspects where if I was frustrated with something and and the way it was worked or the way an exam might work, it would be very, very, very difficult for me to let that go.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And emotionally that can be very draining.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, I can imagine it must be exhausting. It brings us back to um the the idea of being of burnout. Have you ever experienced that?
SPEAKER_00Kind of the fact that um 100%, 100%. And I think um, sorry, that is my other dog now.
SPEAKER_01Um we're getting now.
SPEAKER_00Never get Jack Russell's, you ruin everything. Um, but yeah, before my diagnosis, I'm gonna go through it in a different room.
SPEAKER_01Before my diagnosis, I would say that, but I should say to the people listening that um Kat is actually moving with a computer now and walking through to a different room.
SPEAKER_00I'm in the utility room.
SPEAKER_01Still keep me going.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, I can talk and do anything. Um yeah, so um gosh, what was the question? That's so embarrassing.
SPEAKER_01Um, we're talking about um yeah, social justice and burnout. Burnout, burnout.
SPEAKER_00Burnout, that's the one. Yeah, so before my diagnosis, I got a lot of burnout and didn't really understand why. So I spent most of my childhood and a lot of my um early working life um off sick constantly um because just energy levels. I didn't do anything, just the act of going to school or going to work completely exhausted me. Um, and I still get that now, but I'm able to identify the early it coming early um and put sort of things in place to stop it getting to that point, but it certainly happens.
SPEAKER_01It still happens, but but absolutely less so since diagnosis, since you've been able to understand a bit better what's going on.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So since my diagnosis, um like you said, I've been able to notice when it's coming um and and sort of put things in place to stop myself getting to that complete burnout phase. So, for example, um when I'm sort of feeling a little bit closer to burnout, um, a lot of clothes will just feel stifling, and I'll get angry just at the thought of having to put not like a baggy t-shirt on, like that will just make my skin crawl. Um, and so that's when I know that okay, you need you've got your safe outfits that you know are comfortable, and that's what you'll wear, um, because it's smart, but it's it's comfortable. Um, you've got your your safety, comfort foods that you can go back to, and that all that kind of helps ease the um additional stimulation, I guess.
SPEAKER_01It's having the freedom to learn about yourself and appreciate that what what you're feeling is and what other people are feeling, and that's okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And just that we're all different and we all have different sort of, I don't want to say triggers, but different sort of things that we struggle with, and and just knowing yourself enough to know what they are so that you can live a happier life.
SPEAKER_01Excellent.
Spotting Burnout And Building Safeties
SPEAKER_01Happier life, that sounds sounds like a good plan. Um, okay, so um you you've spent a lot of time understanding yourself, and that yeah, that becomes very evident. And but is there something that you'd like to understand better?
SPEAKER_00Um, I'd love to understand uh I guess just why am I like this? And I guess we understand a lot and much better now about autism and ADHD. There's a lot of theories going on around about sort of um synapses and and things like that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um and I'm very aware that there is a genetic element. Um I can just look at my own family triggers, if you like. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Sorry, th we lost you a little bit there because I'm telling I've put my video off, so um we can that sounds better. Um so you like to get the biology behind the biology behind what
SPEAKER_00And I guess, like I said there, I'm not sure if you picked up on it, but we're understanding a bit more now about what causes it. But I'd love to understand why certain people struggle with one thing over another thing. I just find that fascinating.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so in fact, someone someone could be diagnosed as autistic, but yet their experiences are very different to somebody else's, and why there's that diversity. Yeah, that sounds really good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I've got the same first, I think, to understand that a bit more.
SPEAKER_00Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Is there anything you'd like to tell people that you haven't before?
Kindness And Who Chooses To Share
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, I'd love just to tell people to be kind. You know, we're kind of recently, yeah. But not even just with neurodiversity, but I feel like if people were just much more tolerant of everyone
Curiosity About The Biology Behind It
SPEAKER_00else and a bit more understanding that whether it's a neurodivergency or just individual personality characteristics or lifestyle um history or you know, like uh upbringing, um, it all makes us so different and it all explains why we're not perfect, and just to give each other a little bit of grace, um, that's something my experience has been massively uh where I've had a lot of conflict with my peers, um and I just wish I could tell them just be nice.
SPEAKER_01Be nice, yeah. So um on the back of that, um do you I I think I've got a self-selected um audience in the people who've done the podcast, but everyone I've spoken to on the podcast have been very keen to talk about then that neurodiversity. Do you think that's a kind of a thing that is general, or do you think maybe that's just because people on the podcast want to talk about it because they're doing it on the podcast?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think maybe the latter. Um, I've definitely come across people who are very reticent to share their experience. Um I think it depends on, I guess, what their um experience has been and who they are as a person. Um, with my kind of aspect of this moral justice and um the sort of highly sensitive side of me, um, I'd love to know that just by me sharing it's made somebody else feel better. And if it doesn't, then fine. But if I didn't try, then you never know who you might have helped. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_01No, no, totally, yeah, yeah. It's about um having a conversation, but having conversation the right way and gets back to your kindness you mentioned before. Dealing speaking with the kindness. Okay, my favorite question.
Pet Peeves About Labels And Doubt
SPEAKER_01Pet peeve. You got a pet peeve.
SPEAKER_00Oh goodness, yeah. I have so many. I've been thinking about these. I think my my biggest pet peeve is around the eye the sort of conflicting, contradictory idea, where people are sort of scathing when you label yourself as neurodivergent and specifically as having ADHD or autism in my experience, because you don't fit with what they expect. So they they sort of, especially with this um media viewpoint that's going around about how there's over um diagnosis.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, I think a lot of people have this sort of very cynical um opinion of people who are diagnosed, especially in adulthood with autism and ADHD. Um, but what really grinds my gears is when you have the same person that will tell you that, oh, you're not really autistic or you don't really have ADHD. We're all a bit like that. Um but then we'll turn around and get frustrated at the aspects of you that are due to your neurodiversity that just really like pick a choice, you know, either I'm not or I am, but don't be don't treat me badly because of my neurodivergency and when you don't want to believe that it's true, I guess.
SPEAKER_01Excellent. Well, well, well said, yes, I think um I think it's kind of if you if you're autistic, you're like Rain Man. If you're ADHD, you're not a kid in class. And if you don't fit those boxes, then you've been misdiagnosed and you're making an excuse. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well spoken. Uh that's something people need to hear. Um, thank you.
Advice On Self Knowledge And Flexibility
SPEAKER_01Okay, and finally, the kind of classic podcast question: have you got any advice or insights you'd like to share before you finish?
SPEAKER_00Oh, um, I guess just the importance of getting to know yourself and what works for you. Um I mean, we've said this throughout the podcast, but um, how important it is to get to know yourself by I think what's helped me is looking at other people that are maybe neurodivergent and how they manage life, what they do. So speaking to peers, uh, but then also realizing that we are all different, so what works for someone um might not work for you. Um, so just really getting to know yourself in that way. And that can be really uncomfortable, especially for neurodivergent people, um, to put yourself in an uncomfortable situation to see if it works, but it's really important.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, so, so take advice, listen to advice, take it on board, give it a go, and if it doesn't work, ditch it. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, yeah. That's a that's good that's good. Uh, because I think having those conversations and being open about things is how we how we learn. But yeah, if you're autistic, it's probably hard to step outside that box potentially. Yeah. Okay. Anything to add?
SPEAKER_00Or no, that's it. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01That that's that's really, really valuable. Thank you. Thank you for sharing. Um, and the the whole idea of um of uh looking at yourself and learning about yourself and not accepting what anybody else tells you you should be. I guess really a really good message.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01It's always good. Bye bye.
SPEAKER_00Bye.