Misha (Masters student) talks about ADHD

In this episode we had to start and stop as Misha had to change locations (which has a certain symmetry as they talk about their experience in moving countries too!).  In the name of autheticity we carried on and as alweays I leave it unedited for you

Transcript

Setting The Ground Rules

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Yeah.

Meet Misha

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Hello, so um this is another one of our conversations, um fireside chats, if you will, um that I'm having with people who identify as neurodivergent in some way. I want to hear their personal experiences and I'd like to hear what they've got to share with us. I want you to understand this is their journey, so the terminology and the wording that they use is theirs from their experience. And they may not be those of you listening, but um that's not important because I want to hear their voices in the way they feel comfortable. And I want us all to learn from their experiences. So this morning we've got Misha here. Hello.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Hello. Okay. Um good? Yeah, yeah, I'm doing good, doing good. Ready for it?

SPEAKER_03 0:49

So we're gonna start off. Um, the first question is if you tell us a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Um, well, I'm 21 years old. I'm from Ukraine. I've been studying in Newcastle for this is the fourth year, uh, and I've been living in the UK for about five years. I found out that like I most likely have a DHD only about two years ago when my sister got diagnosed, and I was like, oh yeah, um this all makes sense. Um, but yeah, uh, I'm doing molecular microbiology here. Um, and I used to be one of Damien's students.

SPEAKER_03 1:29

Um you did indeed, you did indeed. Um, so is your sister over here too?

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Or no, um, she she used to be, but uh missed home, so she came back.

unknown 1:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

And she's doing all right? Uh yeah, she's more than okay. She's she does psychology now, which uh makes sense. Um yeah.

Self-Diagnosis And Barriers To Care

SPEAKER_03 1:51

Okay, so um you kind of answered this a bit, but we've got to get a bit more uh detail. Um how how do you specifically do this describe yourself in terms of your neurodiversity?

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Um well I sort of self-diagnosed myself, um, sort of semi-self-diagnosed because like every um like mental health professional I've worked on has like advised me to go and uh um get diagnosed. But okay, um that has not happened yet because the waiting list is huge and the prices for private are have skyrocketed. Uh but I think I most likely have ADHD and possibly ODHD, but um the symptoms can all interlap. So I really don't want to say anything like concrete before I get the results.

SPEAKER_03 2:47

Um I don't understand that. But um I think I think it's important that we we accept because the waiting list is so long and it's so difficult to get a diagnosis that when you when when you telephone identify, then that's uh that's something we accept. So um yeah, what is it that led you to this kind of identity? Do you think identifying yourself as ADHD?

Family Dynamics And Identity

SPEAKER_01 3:10

I think um there was a lot of like denial, there was a lot of um like because I I think I suspected something to do with neurodivergence quite early on. Um and I used to always like because I I was always sort of isolated from other kids. I uh always felt like everyone sort of has the secret sauce that I don't. Uh and I used to come up to my mom because she's a pediatrician and I trusted her with these medical things, and I was like, Mother, mother, what's going on? And she's like, Ah, you don't have that. Um, I have an anecdote later on about her. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. But she I if she were to go get diagnosed, she'd have autism, and my family looking back, uh, the stories like sort of that I have about them, uh, and anecdotes confirm that, I think. Um, but uh it was a lot of sort of deciding on my own. There wasn't like um it wasn't until like some of my friends sort of hinted at it, and I read by myself that I had to without um outside sort of um what's the word? Like confirmation or like uh sort of push to decide for myself this this is what I am, like uh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:39

That makes sense. That's that's good to interesting to hear. Um, but your your sister has got a diagnosis.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Yes, yes. She um she really struggled when she came here for education, and she struggled with the educational system in general back home too. And um eventually, like sort of people around her in the UK, because there's no there's no infrastructure for it in the Ukrainian educational system, sort of said, Oh, well, this like seems like it would benefit you, the SSP. And then she when she went back home, she uh actually got a proper diagnosis. Well, the prices are much cheaper there. Um and yeah, uh it's it's been a big like shift in our family, like it sort of shook up the foundations of like how we view ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 5:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Um yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

So yeah, yeah, because if your mom's resistant to you getting diagnosis, was she resistant to that?

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Um at first, yeah, especially before I left for uni and six form. Um, she very much didn't want to be seen as different. I think that's also like a personal problem that she has. Um, she they they're big on uh assimilation, um, which sort of also ties into uh like my uh father's issue with like my gender and my um like sexuality, but that's not the five what the five-side chat is about.

SPEAKER_03 6:08

Um it's a whole different conversation.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Uh yeah, that's a whole different categories, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:13

Yeah, but it's all part of your identity, so I think it it all links together, doesn't it? Really? It's um and how you express yourself. I think that's what's what we're trying to try to understand better, I think.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Um colored hair and pronouns, you know. It's the all part of your identity.

SPEAKER_03 6:28

So um yeah. Okay, I I thought of a question then, but it's now gone, which is part of the mic, new university.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

That's okay.

SPEAKER_03 6:35

Um so yeah, you haven't been diagnosed, but would you like to be?

SPEAKER_01 6:41

Yes, I do. Uh I'm even though I'm a huge believer in sort of like just live your truth, I also have a big respect for, you know, like the medical field, like uh psychiatric field, and I want to sort of like I haven't been released from those shackles of like um of the system, I think, where I just want a professional to tell me sort of yes, this is uh this is what the BCR. Oh I someone wants to get into this room because it's been booked.

SPEAKER_03 7:14

Um right, I'm gonna pause recording and then yes, and yeah. Okay, so we had a bit of an interruption there, but um all good, settle down now. So we're just talking about um whether a diagnosis would support you, uh how you feel about that. Yeah, and you kind of talk about your respect for professionals.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Yeah, I um when someone sort of like knows what they're talking about. I think it comes from like um again, like my mother being a doctor, and yeah, she has uh talked exhaustively about people sort of uh disagreeing with her like authority on some matters, like so many people refuse to get vaccinated. And I think it's sort of intrinsic to me to go, oh well, I'll sort of ref defer to a professional on this. Um but that's not necessarily what like other people will want for themselves or want to do, and that's completely fine. But um, a part of me wants that sort of like uh official little stamp.

The GP Appointment Anecdote

SPEAKER_03 8:20

Yeah, for me, for me, a diagnosis mate was validating. And um yeah, I think also seeing an external perspective from a professional criteria kind of was quite encouraging. So yeah, there was a lot of moments I read the report and thought, uh yeah, that makes sense. Okay, um, so so are you you are you wait on the waiting list or uh yeah, I've been on the waiting list for about uh six months. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Yeah, I've um went to my GP and uh this is the anecdote was sort of relates to Okay, so that's the next question, anyway.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

So is it is it you like share an anecdote?

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Yeah, yes. So um the anecdote is um so we're at the GP, right? Um, and uh I'm uh I've come in and I'm there with my partner because um they they sort of have experience with these sorts of things, they have autism, they've been diagnosed. Um just like last year after sitting through the waiting list, and I've written out and I still have my whole list and my notes have of like symptoms that I exhibit, everything we could remember. And uh I go through them with my GP and then at the end I go and I think it will you would really like to know the uh what supports my argument is that I wrote this entire list five minutes before the appointment. Um because we we were slightly like because you were supposed to like come in 10 minutes before and we we rushed in and were like, okay, let's go through everything again. Yeah, um, yeah. And my other anecdote was uh about uh my mother for that. Yeah, how'd your GP respond?

SPEAKER_03 10:06

Was it GP positive or uh yeah?

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Uh I have um I think with the NHS and GPs, your sort of level of care depends on the person a lot. And I I have a very level-headed uh person. She um she approaches things in like uh from a very technical perspective. She's like, okay, great, like you've listed this out. This like um marks all of the little dots that I needed. And you know, if you want this, you can get it. Like we can put you on. She gave me a lot of options, so she responded very positively. Um it was a good experience.

SPEAKER_03 10:42

Yeah, it was a good experience. That's really incident. Yeah, great. So you have an anecdote.

Mum’s Routine And New Understanding

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so about I mentioned my mother being uh in the past at least, she's been much more accepting of it now. Um, like she had this aversion to the idea of her being your divergent or children being divergent. But I saw her a month ago in person um in Belgium, and she um she told me the story about well, first my dad sort of off-handedly mentioned every week making this uh like uh Korean dish that, well, it's a Korean, Eastern European dish called Korean carrot, um, which is like a simple sort of fermented spiced uh thinly sliced carrot. And then my mom told me that she has been eating the same meal for her tea for the last three months, uh which was unseasoned um smoke, uh unseasoned baked salmon and that Korean carrot, and my dad has been happily making it for her for the last three months, and then same meal every day, yeah. And she didn't even notice, all right. And uh, because it's sort of like she likes it, it's the same thing, it's comforting, and it's just something to have at the end of the day. And uh after she sort of realized this, after my dad has complained to her, there's like, oh, maybe I'll make you something other than than Kara. And she was like, Oh, maybe um Ula's, my sister's comments about me being autistic actually hold weight. Like it's something like it's something as simple as just like the meals you have, and sort of a comment from your loved one can like really make you like reflect on on yourself and the things that you do.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

Okay, and how does that make her feel?

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Um, I think she has a much more positive outlook on it now. Okay, she um uh I think because society's more been more accepting, uh, she has also come to accept it. And because there's less societal expect expectations of her nowadays, she um sort of she does her job and she does her job well and then yeah, uh there's a like school she needs to go to or she doesn't need to prove herself. Yeah, she doesn't, yeah. So she um sort of well I guess I I guess this is how it is. And maybe my I think my sister just being a person that that that is happy with a neurodivergence has yeah, like um uh shown her that there isn't as much of a societal stigma about it anymore.

SPEAKER_03 13:17

So that's really really good. It's really encouraging. Okay, so um Is there any way you can describe how it affects you in a day-to-day life, which may come as a surprise to other people? So when you're living your daily life, you're just going about it, you're affected by it somehow, but that's not what a normal perception would be.

Rethinking ADHD Stereotypes And Masking

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Well, this might be connected to a normal perception of ADHD, but um I am incredibly bad at timetabling and managing my time. Uh because I think the like stigma for ADHD is like, oh, you're you're sort of you're running around, you're always like um uh your thoughts are always scrambled, you you keep you can't keep yourself down. And I know people with a DHT who are like that, yeah. But I wasn't incredibly always like quiet and sort of in my own world kid. But it is when it comes to like uh but fizz like fit while physically I'm sort of quiet and on my own, sort of in my own world. In my head, it is always like a big scramble where I um, for example, I booked this meeting, I thought, for an hour later. Yeah, uh, and then I quickly I already booked a study room, then I quickly realized 15 minutes before I booked a new study room, but that was too short, then I ran to that room. Uh like all of these little things, they sort of but I love routine when everything is structured for me, and I love um like when I expect something of a day and that what ends up happening. That is extremely rare for me, unfortunately. Like I um it's pleasing to you. Yes, yes, it's it's very pleasing because then I it sort of removes the risk like the um like the uncertainty. I'm also very uncomfortable, and I think this comes from my neurodivergents with uncertainty. Yeah I um because of how sort of uncertain my mind is, I like things around me to be like sort of certain, predetermined uh and and stable in a way. I think a part of it I think has is also me being like an immigrant and living out of a like for a long time I lived out of a suitcase for like uncertain conditions, but yeah um Yeah, I th I think that's one of them. There's probably more that I can sort of uncover, but um that's that's the one that comes to mind to me right now because it's so prevalent.

SPEAKER_03 16:09

Like I it's so many aspects of life coming together, isn't it? In uh kind of uh you moving from a a very different country to this country, and it's all kind of yeah brings it all together, doesn't it? Really? It's makes you who you are.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:24

Um yeah, and I also I think it's I think it's quite an important thing for us to hear, is um, because I think ADHD is very much seen as uh the disruptive child in school. Yeah, I think that's where it's kind of genesis was really, and but it's so much more diverse than that. And uh an important thing for us all to hear. Um it was novel to me in the last few years to to hear that because my perception was incorrect.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Yeah. Well, that's kind of um I've never I never even had the perception. I came into knowing about neurodivergency from completely because no one ever talked to me about it. Okay, it was never presented as an option uh in school. It was never something that like teachers told you you could be. If you were like a uh disruptive child, they the that's just what like people saw you as. But uh I I never was that. I I was very much a teacher's pet all throughout school. And um I think I all of my now thinking back on it, probably all of my like brain power was focused on like putting those like symptoms down and trying to mask myself a lot. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:38

Yeah, that makes sense. The whole masking thing is um it's quite disruptive, isn't it? Quite disruptive. Okay, so is there something that you would particularly like to tell your friends or colleagues or fellow students?

Inclusion, Bridges, And Patient Friendship

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Um I think try to like re try to integrate you know your neurodivergent colleagues and friends into like other groups of people. I um my whole friend group is like a bunch of neurodivergent people, but I would very much um and I've always struggled with like being in groups of people who are neurotypical, for example. But I've seen people like be in those groups, and I think by sort of learning how to be in that environment is important, and even if you're just one person being very welcoming, like if you're neurotypical and you like have uh a group of people who you think would do really well with like your neurodivergent friend, I think sometimes like it really helps to have that sort of bridge between people where yeah, oh this person is cool because I uh it's harder for me to find common ground with people who are neurotypical a lot of the time. I can't even sort of go on the level of like I can't get the flow of conversation going sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Um, like it requires me to sort of uh again tap in into that like masking habit of like, oh, I need to I'm locking in. There's there's someone else that I'm presenting myself. Um and maybe like be patient sometimes, um, which to be fair, everyone in Newcastle Uni has been incredibly patient for me. Um but yeah, um I don't I don't think I have much else to be honest.

Advice: Build Your Raft And Share Hacks

SPEAKER_03 19:45

Um it's integration, isn't it? It's um accepting that we're all different. And just get to know each other. Because that's a big thing for me, is um is uh encouraging people to be free to ask questions as well, which is kind of why. This podcast came from really good. A lot of the neurodivergent people I know are quite keen to talk about it, to explain what's going on and uh to integrate. And I think a lot of people who haven't got that uh neurodivergent background find it quite hard to ask those questions because they feel they're intruding or yeah or being I don't know what the word is, but anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, um, thank you very much. That's that's really interesting. Have you got anything you'd like to any advice for people around you? Any um other thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Um honestly, like push through it. Um you will like no matter what sort of neurodivergence you have, I think like you will be able to do it. Say, like, what helped me is like spite. Um oh sorry, um like I I know that it might seem like you will not make it, or things are too hectic, or they're too like scrambling, that other people, like I mentioned, have that secret sauce, but I'm gonna tell you that they absolutely do not. And everyone is sort of in this, everyone does not know how to swim in the big ocean of life, everyone is desperately trying to stay afloat. Uh, and if you figure out how to build yourself a raft uh or find people who can help you build that raft, uh, you will be okay.

SPEAKER_03 21:34

Um that's great. Yeah, yeah. Find your hacks and share them. Exactly. I think sharing sharing sharing what we've all learned as well, I think goes a long way. And learning it that we don't all have to hide.

Closing Thanks

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Exactly. Just ask, go, go up to a person and ask them something. Like, I everyone is so happy to talk about things in their life. Everyone is so happy to help most of the time. Um, if you know, like um if you're in uni, like and you you have a lecture really like they'll be ready to tell you about their research. Yeah, like they're that's that's their life, that's their job. If you have a like a person in your class that you think is cool, just go up and talk to them. It's excellent. Like people uh 80% of the time will be friendly and accepting. Um just break those uh societal walls down. Who cares? There are no rules.

SPEAKER_03 22:30

Excellent. Well done. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Of course, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Oh no